Building Regultions - 'Change of use' - the six people rule ?

[Mike G]

We are considering opening a B&B but have come up against the following potental problem:

We are being told by the council building regulation officer that we need 'change of use' from a dwelling if we wish to have a total of more than 6 people (who are not part of the same family) using what is currently a domestic dwelling. This means that if for example : me, my wife and 2 children were resident in the dwelling we could have no more than 2 (B&B) guests without needing building regulations change of use. If we require change of use for building regulations purposes we understand we would then become subject to sections B,E & M of the building regulations which would become extremely complicated to comply with.

This 'change of use' is separate to any that may be required from planning, which we are told by a separate department comes under 'incidental to main use', so that for example in a 6 bedroom home - use of 2 rooms for B&B is likely to be treated 'incidental' where as use of 3 rooms for B&B may not.

Any advice or contacts that might be able to help clarify the situation would be much appreciated, as if it the case is as the council is letting us believe is going to be prohibitive to opening a B&B.

thanks for your help.

[D H]

Hi Mike

I was informed that if for instance you have 6 bedrooms and you wish to use 2 of those bedrooms for visitors and the visitors would share your accommodation, e.g. your kitchen or dining room to eat then a change of use would not be needed.

If however you plan to use 4 of the 6 bedrooms and also have a designated sitting room or dining room for your visitors then you would need a change of use as visitors would be using more of the property than you would. In other words, the house must firstly be your home, you would be allowed to make a small income out of a spare bedroom but not a business unless you went for a change of use.

[Graham Durack]

Hi! There,
Shell and Graham, here at the Bees Knees Guest House. We had a similar problem, though on a smaller scale as we only have three rooms sleeping a maximum of six people. (if we have full ocucupancy as in 6 guests, my partner and I sleep on the premises in our office.)

We were told by our local council that as we were running a business from home, we too had to file an application for change of use, there was no lee way or exclusions because we can only sleep up to 6 people.
I can only strongly recommend to go and see your local planning authority and ask their advice. If like ours, they will have a duty planning officer on site who will assist you in any of your queries. though its good to get help and advice from people on sites like this, you could find that if you are given information, that it could be incorrect to the way your local authority actually work. Our local Authority are notorious for being sticklers and doing things by the book. its not worth trying to "get round things" or cutting corners as it could cost you dearly. Many people are very kind in offering advice but if the only advice I can offer you is to go and see your local planning authority.

If this helps, we were told by one duty officer, that we should also send in an accompanying letter to the application and include in it the reasons why you think your guest house benefits the local economy, community and tourist industry. We included quotes from reviews by guests and our star rating etc.
(If you can prove that you have bought a benefit to the borough instead of being a drain this will all go to helping you achieve the permmission you seek. Good luck my friend I hope you get the change of use granted.

[joyful]

Just to say that after 3 bedrooms, 6 people you come under the watchful eye of the Business Rates People....... and that is where the fun really starts.

I think that if you keep it to 3 rooms and 6 people I have always been led to believe you can avoid the change of use issue etc. I thought it was only over 6 people/3 rooms things moved in to a different sphere. Anyway, do check with your local authority.

HOWEVER, I would love to have a chat with anyone about the new fire regs and in particular the "emergency lighting". I don't think people running small operations realise quite just what this entails!! My electrician has been around to tell me where all these little lit green men are going to be and quite frankly my home from home will soon look like a Vegas Nightclub.

I am also interested in how Visit Britain are going to go about this issue as one will be able to see very clearly if the little green men are in place (and believe me they have to be at change of elevation as well.... it is really really serious business) and what they are going to do when they visit us small guys and find that this new Legal law brought in in Oct 06 is not in place? Will we still qualify for our Grading????

Have the authorities any idea of the financial burden. Oh, yes and if you live in the sticks you need a little green man outside your front door pointing to escape route as well. If any small guys, 5,4,3,2,1, rooms etc., can give any info on the emergency lighting and if they have had it put in, if Visit Britain have picked up on it, if the fire authorities, local authorities, insurance companies are visiting us etc., i would be very interested. I gather insurance companies won't pay out if you haven't got all the interlinked smoke alarms, extinguishers (annually checked as well) and the little green emergency lights in place... I don't think half the B&Bs in operation even KNOW about these new rules..... Cheers everyone.

[AdrianC]

Joyful - It may be best to create a new topic for your question regarding emergency lighting. It seems well worthy of its own topic, and would probably result in more replies for you.

Cheers

Adrian -- thebarnatholmfirth.co.uk

[David]

Business Rates people are [sometimes a little zealous - edited by moderator], however they can be very helpful. Our last visit from them went better than the first one.
Ask about Small Business Rate Relief, you may be pleasantly surprised.javascript:insertsmiley('o:)%20','/forum/images/emoticons/eusa_angel.gif')

[Raincliffe1]

Where our small hotel is, it appears people can have letting rooms/flats within their residential dwelling and have more temporary 'customers' than people registered at the address and nobody is bothered in terms of applying or enforcing 'change of use'.

I am of the opinion, that if your establishment contributes to the local economy then you should be subject to business rates same as any other business, remember it is calculated on turnover/number of letting rooms etc so it would be proportionate.

One thing to remember if you are letting out any part of your property is a) fire regulations and b) insurance. If there was a fire and your guests' belongings were lost, worst still they were badly incapacitated or if they fell down your stairs resulting in the same - where would you stand? Would they claim off you for loss of earnings etc? It is because of these potential problems that people apply for change of use and register as a business.

[SaltySarah]

Joyful, Remember that your electrician is in it to make money!! You may be able to use 'borrowed light' in some areas..ie from a window with a street lamp outside. How many escape routes do you have? If you only have one and it is straight down the stairs to a main door then why do you need 'little green men' at all? Have you had a second opinion...maybe from the local fire officer?

Just to say that after 3 bedrooms, 6 people you come under the watchful eye of the Business Rates People....... and that is where the fun really starts.

I think that if you keep it to 3 rooms and 6 people I have always been led to believe you can avoid the change of use issue etc. I thought it was only over 6 people/3 rooms things moved in to a different sphere. Anyway, do check with your local authority.

HOWEVER, I would love to have a chat with anyone about the new fire regs and in particular the "emergency lighting". I don't think people running small operations realise quite just what this entails!! My electrician has been around to tell me where all these little lit green men are going to be and quite frankly my home from home will soon look like a Vegas Nightclub.

I am also interested in how Visit Britain are going to go about this issue as one will be able to see very clearly if the little green men are in place (and believe me they have to be at change of elevation as well.... it is really really serious business) and what they are going to do when they visit us small guys and find that this new Legal law brought in in Oct 06 is not in place? Will we still qualify for our Grading????

Have the authorities any idea of the financial burden. Oh, yes and if you live in the sticks you need a little green man outside your front door pointing to escape route as well. If any small guys, 5,4,3,2,1, rooms etc., can give any info on the emergency lighting and if they have had it put in, if Visit Britain have picked up on it, if the fire authorities, local authorities, insurance companies are visiting us etc., i would be very interested. I gather insurance companies won't pay out if you haven't got all the interlinked smoke alarms, extinguishers (annually checked as well) and the little green emergency lights in place... I don't think half the B&Bs in operation even KNOW about these new rules..... Cheers everyone.

[imported_Sandy]

Hi all
I had to apply for change of use retrospectively as a neighbour decided she did not want a B and B next door even though it had been running for a number of years. I was successful in my application and was granted permission to use 5 rooms /6 people and did not qualify for business rates. With regard to VB and the fire regs they do ask if you have had the necessary work done and whilst they checked the assessment they are not qualified to know if you have complied with all the requirements. They do ask to see the paperwork and I do think it may have an effect on grading if one is seen not to comply. I do not notice the little green men anymore !

[imported_Sandy]

Forgot to mention (Joyful) the local fire department are visiting all the B and Bs in the area and I am having my visit next week . They give approx 6 weeks notice . Some of the local B and Bs decided to close following the visit but they were considering doing so in the not too distant future anyway. Others were given a period of time to meet the requirements and then received another visit to check progress. On the whole they were helpful and do wish to work with us.

[Sue: White Horse Walking Holidays]

I have 2-3 rooms for guests, although not all year. My local council were happy about 2 rooms but requested a copy of a layout to decide on the 3rd. Luckily I already had one and they did approve it. I think it all depends on your council - get them on your side and hopefully they'll be fair.

[DC]

Hi we have been in business for 20 years as a B&B and grew from small beginnings with 2 guest rooms to 7 now plus 2 more in an annexe. After about 5 years we suddenly received a notice saying we were now to be business rated. I didn't object at the time and we have been paying business rates ever since. What worries me now is how to change back to a private dwelling as we are now winding down to retirement but don't want to move house. One local hotel was refused a "change of use "application to become a private house by the local Council.They stated they wanted to retain employment in the area. As I never applied in the first place to be a business I wonder how we stand? Has anyone any experience of this or suggestions? I am afraid of asking the authorities (Council or Tax Office) as this might just alert them to do something detrimental to me.

[Cumbrian Peppa]

](*,) The authority within the National Park where we live and trade put a block on any further B&B's, Guest Houses and Hotels opening and being certified unless they could provide car parking for the visitors as parking is at a premium here. One couple we know bought a privately owned house and converted it to offer three rooms B&B. They knocked down internal walls, installed en-suite facilities, hung a sign outside [no planning permission] and started trading. The Inland revenue [responsible for business rates costings] did a sweep of the town [we were included] to re-evaluate businesses for this purpose. Our rates remain the same as we have not altered the amount of rooms or space they occupy within the building. The other property was rated under the business rates banner as their 3 rooms occupied 70% of their building but they never applied for change of use and seem to have got under the radar. We understand that if their 3 rooms occupied less than 70% or did not have en-suite facilities then they would not be paying business rates either. They cannot offer car parking for visitors so we assume they have no 'certificate of lawfulness' either. If they had applied for 'change of use' it would have been refused but it seems the '3 room or less' thinking allows this comedy to continue!