To pre-order or not to pre-order

[Raincliffe1]

I am just in the process of re-doing our menus to offer more choices. What concerns me is that with potentially 34 guests ordering from a menu with 10 different breakfast choices (English/continental/kippers/omlettes/pancakes/teacake & cheese/sandwiches/various eggs on toast/porridge etc etc)that with just myself and my husband in the kitchen it could be a bit frantic (as it sometimes is).

I am wondering whether to ask guests on arrival if they would like the cooked breakfast and if they 'dither/unsure' ask them to fill in a ticksheet (or something similar) with these options on it and 'return to reception before...'

If people wish to change their mind for the following day, they just inform me at breakfast service or reception, perhaps?

I would particularly be interested to know what members with 4 star silver grade and similar sized accommodation do in this instance?

I am concerned that we would be 'marked down' by the hotel inspector for the pre-ordering element, but you need some advance warning if people want pancakes/omlettes especially in the middle of a busy breakfast I think. The problem we have found in the past is that people indicate they would like a cooked breakfast when they book, they are confronted with a menu of different options on the morning and hey presto, cooked breakfast is out of the window, results in a lot of wastage.

Any suggestions people?

Katherine

[Martin]

Can you make it optional, and if they pre-order their breakfast and time of serving then they get preference?

If I had the next day planned, such as a busy day with an early start and a client lunch or dinner, then I may find pre-ordering useful. But if I had an unplanned day ahead, I may find pre-ordering unsuitable.

Whatever happens, that's a lot of stomachs to feed between 2 of you. Your other option of course would be staff up a little or extend the breakfast times to spread the load. You could of course extend the breakfast times on an ad-hoc basis, when you feel it would be beneficial.

Cheers,

Martin.

[_Sharpe]

We are four star and silver award and offer a choice of full English with eggs to order (poached, fried, boiled), pancakes, omelettes and a Healthy Choice option which is stone ground oatmeal with fruit compote, yoghurt, honey and homemade granola. We won the VisitBritain breakfast award. With just 4 choices, we don't find it difficult to handle our clientele of up to 17 per day with just the two of us. With double that number, I would look to either extra help or pre-ordering. We went to a four star B&B in London and they only offered scrambled eggs on the Full English and no other options and they pre-cooked the scrambled eggs. Mine were stone cold.

[Raincliffe1]

We are four star and silver award and offer a choice of full English with eggs to order (poached, fried, boiled), pancakes, omelettes and a Healthy Choice option which is stone ground oatmeal with fruit compote, yoghurt, honey and homemade granola. We won the VisitBritain breakfast award. With just 4 choices, we don't find it difficult to handle our clientele of up to 17 per day with just the two of us. With double that number, I would look to either extra help or pre-ordering. We went to a four star B&B in London and they only offered scrambled eggs on the Full English and no other options and they pre-cooked the scrambled eggs. Mine were stone cold.

Your healthy option sounds lovely but as for pre-cooked scrambled eggs - yuck. I'm sure one of our suppliers tried to sell us some microwave omelettes once - another bad idea.

Katherine

[greenbarncottages]

Our business is self catering, so I can’t offer any thoughts from a hotelier’s or B&B owner’s perspective. However, here’s my thoughts, FWIW, from my experience as a guest.
I’ve had some memorably awful experiences at breakfast, mainly in large hotels, where the service was run for the benefit of staff rather than guests, or so it seemed. Staying on business, come down for breakfast, huge queue of people lining up for cooked stuff (no table service). That’s a decision made, then – I simply don’t have enough time to wait. Go off to my meeting hungry and grumpy.
Another queue experience, actually waiting to be allowed in to the dining room at a very large hotel. Not a business trip, and a weekend. We’re being allowed in by the jobsworth at the desk as tables become available, but every time a table empties he asks if there’s a group of four or more. There’s plenty of couples, self included, who’ve been waiting for some time, but if a group pipes up from the back of the queue, in they go. People are not happy. Eventually I had to go and find the duty manager and explain to him that he needed to get things sorted before he had a riot on his hands.
So first off, I don’t want to queue. I want to go in and immediately be able to serve myself to some coffee, orange juice, cereal or whatever – you know, the stuff that alters one’s morning state into something approaching human. That applies regardless of size of hotel, unless it’s so small that I’m pretty much guaranteed instant service. But I really do want that coffee, and quick!
Once settled at a table with my initial life savers, I’m happy to peruse the menu and order what I want, or if the place is large enough to have a cooked food counter, then I can wander over there and get what I want, including those really yummy congealed fried eggs sitting under a heat lamp.
Obviously my expectations differ with the size and character of the establishment; in a large hotel catering mainly for business guests, breakfast is a refuelling exercise. In a smaller, more personal place, it may well be an enjoyable start to the day. However, I still don’t want to wait 25 minutes to get my cooked breakfast, and as a guest I have visions of a fully staffed kitchen with chefs standing there eagerly awaiting my order; a bit far from the inevitable reality!
So if you’re going to offer me the opportunity to pre-order my breakfast, then I believe you are offering me an additional service. It may be simply a case of will I want a cooked breakfast? Maybe an approximate time. Maybe down to the detail of exactly what I want, although the chances are that I’m not going to want to decide that the night before. Whatever level you choose, if I can believe that you’re doing it for my benefit, and that you don’t insist on my choosing, then it’s a service you’re offering me and any hotel inspector should recognise that. So by all means give me that choice, accompanied by “Breakfast time can be busy, so if you would like to pre-order we can serve you more quickly” or whatever, and I’ll appreciate it. One point, though, if I’m given the opportunity to order in detail everything I want on my plate at a particular time, I now have the expectation that will happen…….
It sometimes seems that whatever branch of the hospitality business we’re in, it would be so much simpler without guests………

[Raincliffe1]

Many thanks for that reply. To be honest I have little experience of other hotels/guest house so your insight is really welcome. I agree you have to try and view things from the customers' perspective. To me, the gains for the customer are a) if they do not want a full cooked English breakfast there are plenty of other appetizing options, some they may not have considered and b) in knowing that a particular customer wants for example a spanish omelette the ingredients can already be chopped up/to hand which helps at busy breakfast time. Essentially, it would save preparation time, meaning the customer enjoys their breakfast faster without the wait (I hope); keeping customers waiting is a pet hate of my husbands!I don't think pre-ordering for every single ingredient on the English breakfast is necessary but simply to ask people when the arrive if they would like the full English breakfast and if they don't, a menu with a range of other appealing options can be supplied (the pre ordering element). Interesting but valid points though.

Katherine

[RNG]

My ask guests to pre-order their cooked breakfast the night before. We tell our guests nothing is pre-cooked and reheated, but everything is freshly cooked for them. This is partly to avoid waste and also so the guests don't have to wait too long. No-one has ever objected, in fact our guests seem to appreciate this service. We are a Silver 4 Star B&B and our VB inspectors have never told us it is unsuitable to ask guests to pre-order. We have a lot of positive reviews on Tripadvisor with glowing praise for our breakfasts. A lot mention the fact that because of pre-ordering, they don't have to wait to enjoy a delicious piping hot breakfast.

[Jacquie]

Hi. I have a 4Star Silver B&B. I now leave a breakfast menu in each room and ask guests to make their selection up to 10pm the night before. It truly saves a lot of waste. I used to give a full cooked breakfast (which was listed in the welcome letter) but some people didn't like black pudding for example but wouldn't let me know before hand. This way, my guests can make up whatever breakfast they like and know they will enjoy it. In fact, I've just had a young couple who had cereal, full English with tea and toast, followed by pancakes and maple syrup! I don't mind what they have as long as they eat it!

[_Sharpe]

Hi. I have a 4Star Silver B&B. I now leave a breakfast menu in each room and ask guests to make their selection up to 10pm the night before. It truly saves a lot of waste. I used to give a full cooked breakfast (which was listed in the welcome letter) but some people didn't like black pudding for example but wouldn't let me know before hand. This way, my guests can make up whatever breakfast they like and know they will enjoy it. In fact, I've just had a young couple who had cereal, full English with tea and toast, followed by pancakes and maple syrup! I don't mind what they have as long as they eat it!


There's no waste if you cook it to order.

[Jacquie]

I agree there is no waste if you cook to order. However, as a one-man-band, I don't want my guests waiting too long for their breakfast. Taking breakfast orders in the morning doesn't allow enough time to mix up a batch of pancakes for one and prepare three full cooked breakfasts in addition to one portion of porridge and perhaps beans on toast. (Not forgetting the tea/coffee/toast etc). Getting everything out quickly needs preparation and if I know what to prepare, I can cook to order as my guests arrive in the dining room. So this way, no waste and also not much waiting (well that's usually the plan anyway!).

[imported_]

We are a 3star B&B and have been told by the VB inspector that its alright at your level(3 star) but any higher you should not get guests to pre-order breakfasts and you would not get a silver award if you pre-ordered (one of our colleagues was actually refused for this reason) so what this highlights is that the inspectors do not seem to have common standards and I feel its about time VB inspected Quality in Tourism's assessors to make sure they are doing their job consistently

[greenbarncottages]

We are a 3star B&B and have been told by the VB inspector that its alright at your level(3 star) but any higher you should not get guests to pre-order breakfasts and you would not get a silver award if you pre-ordered (one of our colleagues was actually refused for this reason) so what this highlights is that the inspectors do not seem to have common standards and I feel its about time VB inspected Quality in Tourism's assessors to make sure they are doing their job consistently


"Good evening sir, welcome to our B&B."

"Many thanks. I'm on a bit of a tight schedule in the morning, so I'd like to pre-order what I'd like for breakfast, and what time."

"I'm afraid we can't offer you that service sir, as to do so we'd have to reduce our VB rating."

"So you're telling me that I can only get good customer service if I book at a lower-rated B&B?"

"Yes, Minister."

[Sue: White Horse Walking Holidays]

I tell guests the night before what my 'special' will be - that's a good way of finding out what they want without actually asking them to pre-order. If they don't want the special, they usually say what they do want.

[VisitEngland_Feedback_]

We are a 3star B&B and have been told by the VB inspector that its alright at your level(3 star) but any higher you should not get guests to pre-order breakfasts and you would not get a silver award if you pre-ordered (one of our colleagues was actually refused for this reason) so what this highlights is that the inspectors do not seem to have common standards and I feel its about time VB inspected Quality in Tourism's assessors to make sure they are doing their job consistently

Page 29 of the Guest Accommodation standards book onwards offers ‘Quality Guidance’ and is there to give operators an idea of how assessors will mark the quality of their business in each area of the operation (compared with the front sections of the Standards, which details minimum requirements at each star rating).

‘3.4.3 Breakfast’ indicates that the assessor is more likely to mark the breakfast service at 4 Star if orders are taken at the time of the meal. However, there are a number of other factors taken into account when marking the breakfast service and a business with a well organised pre-ordering system might well be marked at 4. If the mark for breakfast service falls below 4, it is still possible for an operator to achieve a 4 Star rating as the breakfast service mark is only one of many that form part of the calculation when working out the final star rating.

There will be examples of 4-star B&Bs where the guests are offered the opportunity to pre-order, but the assessor will be looking for ordering at breakfast-time as an alternative. There will be a judgement made by the assessor. If he feels the pre-ordering is for the benefit of the host/owner, rather than the guest, the rating may be 'capped' at 3-star. There may be businesses where the majority of guests are business people looking for a speedy breakfast service, in which case the assessor may mark at a level 4. Equally, a wide-ranging menu may justify the pre-ordering in a very small establishment.

[imported_]

Page 29 of the Guest Accommodation standards book onwards offers ‘Quality Guidance’ and is there to give operators an idea of how assessors will mark the quality of their business in each area of the operation (compared with the front sections of the Standards, which details minimum requirements at each star rating).

‘3.4.3 Breakfast’ indicates that the assessor is more likely to mark the breakfast service at 4 Star if orders are taken at the time of the meal. However, there are a number of other factors taken into account when marking the breakfast service and a business with a well organised pre-ordering system might well be marked at 4. If the mark for breakfast service falls below 4, it is still possible for an operator to achieve a 4 Star rating as the breakfast service mark is only one of many that form part of the calculation when working out the final star rating.

There will be examples of 4-star B&Bs where the guests are offered the opportunity to pre-order, but the assessor will be looking for ordering at breakfast-time as an alternative. There will be a judgement made by the assessor. If he feels the pre-ordering is for the benefit of the host/owner, rather than the guest, the rating may be 'capped' at 3-star. There may be businesses where the majority of guests are business people looking for a speedy breakfast service, in which case the assessor may mark at a level 4. Equally, a wide-ranging menu may justify the pre-ordering in a very small establishment.
Really not surprised about this reply from a part government agency which seems more interested in covering their back than in actually sorting out these problems. It is often the case that the only people who do not seem to know the common standards are the very assessors who are supposed to " ignore personal predudices and preferences" and as the comments above rely on judgements from assessors you will always get variations in how the common standards apply. It is this that is so frustating and is partly rsponsible for so many establishments leaving the scheme