Star ratings

[Manors]

](*,) I would like to know how others in the hospitality trade view the new star rating system. We are currently assessed as a two star hotel and so get the two star indicator on all listings and websites. Unless Joe Public understands the system (which the majority of our guests certainly don't) we look inferior to a three or four star guest accommodation, because people just look at the number of stars. When this topic was broached with our hotel inspector he suggested we change to guest accommodation - having just spent a significant amount on new signage and brochures having transferred from the AA to VB and on all the additional extras now required by VB to keep the hotel rating we don't really want to do this but it would appear we are disadvantaged by trying to offer a service with a few extra benefits. We certainly don't charge guests any more than most 4star GA providers so we feel we are losing out. Are the days of the small 'hotel' numbered? Are there really any plusses to being classed as an 'hotel'? What do others think?

[Raincliffe1]

We, like you were in this position a year ago. We could be a 2 star small hotel or a 4 star guest house as we are all en suite, licensed, offer evening meals 7 days a week and have a residents' lounge etc. Yes, sometimes you want some extra recognition for offering extra facilities/services your competitors often do not. Yes, you are right, the vast majority of people just look at the number of stars - 'we chose you because you had 4 stars' they never mention the category/sub-category you are in.

We decided to go with the 4 star guest accommodation status based on this above fact, but even that has its problems. Where we are, the resort is awash with 4 star guest accommodation and I had some very revealing feedback from many of my customers who stayed with my competitors when we were closed for building work this time last year. In a nutshell they could not understand why there was such a variance in quality in the 4 star band. If you go with the 4 star rating I would invest some money and have a go at achieving a gold or silver award to set you apart from your competitors. Having stayed at some 4 star guest accommodation in the last year I would certainly aim for a higher quality percentage if I was looking as a prospective customer to an establishment

The only plus I can see in being labelled as a hotel is that people may be willing to pay a little more for their accommodation, but in these trading times you may struggle to reach this tariff, especially if your competitors are having a price war. Yes, I think the days of the small hotel are numbered evident as accommodation providers replace their signage over the coming years.

[greenbarncottages]

We are currently going through the star rating issue with our self catering cottages. We're in our first year, and have just had the assessor in, who effectively gave us the option of being four star or spending a bit more in a couple of areas and being five star - and yes, I realise there is absolutely no correlation between star ratings for S/C, hotels, and indeed any other form of guest accommodation, and I do believe this is an issue, particularly in situations such as the original poster's.

The problem we have, and being new into the trade doesn't help, is deciding which to go for, and any advice or experience would be gratefully received.

We have seen some 4* self catering places nearby which are truly awful, so do we want to be associated (in the minds of prospective guests) with those places? A big part of the problem seems to be the lack of ongoing assessment of existing places, which may have been 4* a few years back but are now tired and in need of a big refit - currently they would only be assessed as 3* or less, but can continue to market as 4* - and honestly. This doesn't help those of us trying to offer something a lot better, but which is perceived as the same quality, and I'm sure the situation is similar with other accommodation types.

We could differentiate ourselves by going the extra mile and being 5*, but here is where we could really do with some help. We live on site, the cottages are in our grounds. We've heard tales from 5* S/C owners about the expectations of some guests who will go out of their way to find something to moan about, or come knocking on the door late at night because a lightbulb has gone (there are spares....) or something equally trivial. Now we are very happy to hear feedback, we are happy to know about problems asap and to be able to sort them, and we've already had a couple of situations due to minor teething problems in a new barn conversion. These have been from guests who have come over not in a "this is wrong we want some money back" frame, but in a "there's a problem and we thought you'd like to know about it" frame. Very different, helpful, and yes, thank you for telling us.

Certainly we are likely to get the occasional guests with unrealistic expectations, no matter what our grading and no matter how well we try and manage expectations. The question is, have people found that offering 5* S/C attracts a lot more "professional moaners"? We've enjoyed what we're doing so far, and we don't want it to turn sour.
Any thoughts?

[KBO]

I agree that the general public does not understand the star ratings. We have 4 star S/C apartments in a seaside town that generally has a poor standard of accommodation. When we get an enquiry we have a hard time convincing them why we are dearer. Some people expect to pay the same price regardless of quality. When we can get people in the door then usually they understand the difference. If we see people looking at our sign outside we 'pounce' on them and if an apartment is available we will show them round and this seems to work. The problem is that the town has a low expection level although there are now a few 4 star's around.

Regarding professional moaners unfortunately you are always going to get someone who will find fault. We often find that it is themselves that is the problem - could have been a difficult journey or the kids are playing up - but once they have settled in then all is well. The thing to do is to assess the complaint. Some are genuine and useful but for others there is no pleasing them. You just have to let it wash over you. We have had guests who look like thunder everytime you see them yet when the leave they put how nice everything was in the guest book. If you are getting repeat business and the majority of guests are positive then you must be doing it right.

[Wiggy]

You are quite right as to the general publis not recognising the difference between the differing categories of accommodation but let me ask you. Do the general public note star ratings at all. I find that having the Visit Britain acreditation has become somewhat of a comfort blanket to me. As well as not being to advertise in certain publications if the accreditation is not held, I feel that there is too much emphasis by Hoteliers and alike. The public out there as you mention are not aware of the difference between Guest accom and Hotel. Lets face it I as guest accom I offer everything that a small Hotel offers but would only achieve a 2 star rating. Think about the guest though, I have properties around me that are 4 and 5 star rated, but offer no more than myself. I have heard guests chatting and saying that they are so pleased with the accomodation and everything about my place. This is certainly better than arriving at a so called 4 or 5 star premis and being dissapointed. The point is dont reach for the higher rating if you cannot fulfil your guests expectations.

[Manors]

With reference to the previous post the point I was making in my initial topic was not that we are aiming to be higher than a two star small hotel - three star would be completely out of our league as you have to have 24hr reception etc. - and we would have no problem becoming a 4star GA but wanted to keep our hotel title as we offer all the extras an hotel HAS to according to VB criteria. (There are quite a few additional services which GA providers do not have to have, although many do, perhaps.) But few people bother to look at the way the ratings work prior to going on one of the booking websites which list properties just with the star ratings. When it was diamonds and stars the difference was obvious. A few of the now known Guest Accommodations have removed the title of hotel from their descriptions, but most have not.

[Raincliffe1]

The phrase that we were advised to use was 'guest accommodation with many of the features of a small hotel'. We have used this in our advertising but often people do not realise half of what you offer until they are in your building. This confirms what you state, people do not look at how the ratings work; when they arrive they look in our residents' lounge and ask 'can we use that/oh, you have a bar/oh, you do evening meals?'

Yes, it annoys me that we put ourselves out to offer extra services but get very little recognition by either the grading system or some of our customers nor is there often much financial gain (hence the reason many GA provider do not do meals or offer alcoholic drinks etc). We can only but hope that decent customers see that you are making efforts above and beyond the norm, appreciate and return.

Yes, we wanted to keep the word 'hotel' but the fact is the powers dictate you cannot if you are in the GA scheme. I think Visit Britain should conduct some some research now the scheme has been in operation for nearly 12 months showing members of the public various signs/gradings/categories and asking them which one they would choose or what facilites they think that establishment offers. I only know the feedback that I have had from my customers (who are a generally intelligent bunch) and they have told me that they would choose a 4 star GA over a 2 star small hotel believing that the 4 star offered higher quality at a fairer price, to be honest the offering of more facilities/services or even the cost differential did not really come into it.

Higher gradings in the GA system (as appears to me) is not so much a reflection on services/facilities but more on quality - the difference between a 100% polypropylene carpet @ £6.99 a sq metre or a 100% wool twist @ £18.99 a sq metre, the difference between £15-£20 a roll wallpaper on the walls or painted over wallpaper, wood chip, artex or something @ £4 a roll, a new double bed @ £160 or one @ £500, a Mira resin shower tray that takes 2 people to lift it or a £40 wobble board from B&Q (no insult to B & Q intended).

[Libra]

My concern about the quality assessment is that my property is on a resort. The assessor admitted to me that the properties let out by the resort company are not all assessed every year. They only assess a few. These properties are individually owned.

To my mind this is far from adequate as can be seen online the standard of the properties can vary quite substantially.

The resort advertise ratings from 3 - 5 stars at the gate but the individual listings on their website do not show their ratings.

[Longtimer]

As the owner of an upmarket B&B with four yellow AA stars (i.e. at the top of the four star grade) I have a lot of sympathy with Libra's concerns. The standards required to attain a four star grading for a hotel are exceptionally demanding, but more than 80% of assessed guest houses/B&Bs in the whole of our area are four star or above. As a result, the entire guest accommodation system lacks credibility and, from our point of view, it fails to distinguish us from so many establishments which are simply not in the same marketplace.
When the new assessment system came in place, we understood that many of the old four diamond establishments would then only qualify for a three star grading. It seems that the assessors have ducked the issue of an inflated four star band, and we are now suffering from the same problems as the education system where a few ticks in the right boxes ensure that almost everyone gets the top grades.
Does anyone have the courage to admit what has gone wrong? I doubt it. The consequences of having to downgrade so many establishments are, I suspect, too much to bear.

[Raincliffe1]

100% agree Longtimer. What Joe public does not realise is that the 4 star band is actually 70-84/5% and that many 4 star properties have just scraped it. We have heard on the grapevine that there is to be a shake up of the new ratings now it has been operational for a year and more importance will be attached to the quality of fixtures/fittings/service offered. I would imagine this is in response to the negative reviews some 4 star places have had. I fail to understand why some establishments can achieve 2 out of 10 and yet another guest (of similar age/outlook) rates the place as 10 out of 10. If the inspecting bodies did their job properly - discrepancies such as this would not arise. Problem is, the higher the percentage of 4 star properties - the better it makes the UK tourism product look in terms of offering a quality product, especially when compared with markets abroad, so I guess VisitBritain/AA are under pressure to pass as many establishments as 4 star.

Katherine

[hotel accountant]

I agree that the general public does not understand the star ratings. We have 4 star S/C apartments in a seaside town that generally has a poor standard of accommodation. When we get an enquiry we have a hard time convincing them why we are dearer. Some people expect to pay the same price regardless of quality. When we can get people in the door then usually they understand the difference. If we see people looking at our sign outside we 'pounce' on them and if an apartment is available we will show them round and this seems to work. The problem is that the town has a low expection level although there are now a few 4 star's around.

Regarding professional moaners unfortunately you are always going to get someone who will find fault. We often find that it is themselves that is the problem - could have been a difficult journey or the kids are playing up - but once they have settled in then all is well. The thing to do is to assess the complaint. Some are genuine and useful but for others there is no pleasing them. You just have to let it wash over you. We have had guests who look like thunder everytime you see them yet when the leave they put how nice everything was in the guest book. If you are getting repeat business and the majority of guests are positive then you must be doing it right.

I agree........ one has to be pretty thick skinned in the Accomodation business and work out when to kick off in response to their views. Repeat business is the life blood of all small business..... but 'bending over backwards' for those prepared to use your good nature just leaves you with back aches....and they never come back anyway.

[Vicky]

I wondered if anybody else is having problems with competitors using incorrect designators and signage. In my area on the Council/TIC run website there are a significant number of b&b's having guest accommodation rating but saying they are a hotel or townhouse hotel or other now defunct designators. I feel they are operating at a clear advantage over the 'honest ones' when they look to be a 4 star hotel, but are in fact 4 star guest accommodation. I am sure they must be getting a lot of complaints from their guests as well, who surely must be feeling missold. I have raised this subject with QiT who say they have no control over a third party website. I have also contacted the council who say correcting the mistakes is not of high priority. Surely it is in QiT's interest to ensure this new ratiang system is a success and therefore should bring some pressure to bear on these third party websites, otherwise we could all start 'self-certifying' and calling ourselves what we wanted. I was appalled that the Council sees my complaint as not important and wondered if anyone out there had had a simlar experience who could perhaps give me some advise. I wondered if Trading Standards could help. Any advice gratefully recieved or am I getting overly sensitive????](*,)

[Raincliffe1]

Technically I suppose we are using incorrect signage... We are rated as 4 star silver guest accommodation (for the aforementioned reasons in this thread) however our hotel signage says 'Raincliffe Hotel'. The problem for us was that in 2004 when we bought the business the old sign blew off down the road! Consequently, we invested in an internally lit illuminated sign in the front garden plus other hotel signage at the cost of £3500. Obviously it was built to last. VisitBritain have basically said that when the signage is replaced we need to drop the word hotel (as we have done from our 'paper/Internet' advertising). Hence it looks as if we are not conforming to the new rules.

Katherine

[Starchip]

This thread is very interesting.

I opened my small B&B (3 rooms, 2 double 1 twin), last September. Yes, September 2008. I was inspected by QiT in December 2008 and achieved four stars - count them - four stars (Bed & Breakfast).

Absolutely no previous "hospitality" experience - yet I got four stars (count them again if you like) within three months of opening.

As you can imagine, I am extremely proud of this. Perhaps even more than any other achievement in my life.

You are all now sowing a seed of doubt in my mind. And, as I become more experienced in this trade, I can see why.

However, being entirely new to this sector, I would like to know where we have come from. What was the system before this? Especially "Diamonds". What was wrong with it? Why was it changed? Have those problems been addressed?

Also, what needs to be done to fix the situation we now find ourselves in?

[imported_Joanna]

A nearby guest accommodation rated 5 Stars by Visit***** uses Hotel in their name. I contacted Visit***** to confirm that this was indeed the 5 star hotel it claimed to be (knowing well it wasn't -- as it is rated as a guest accommodation). Visit***** came right back and confirmed that it was indeed a 5 star hotel!!
If those who rate can't even keep it straight then what can you do?

I really believe it is false advertisment but think that the solution is to take away all the different categories -- the guests sure don't understand the difference between a guest accommodation, an inn, a restaurant with rooms and a hotel -- especially not when it says hotel in the name of the business!!

[patrick]

I appreciate I am off the original point but picking up subsequent posters points: having inadvertantly found myself (as someone already graded for a number of years with s/c acocmmodation) at a meeting hosted by QiT aimed at primarily guest house owners who had yet to sign up for grading, I was suprisied to hear their traget (presumably imposed by government or their quango Visit Britain) was amost a doubling of numbers of ecoommodation units graded, I immediately realised the significance of this would be that their Inspectors would be very loathe to downgrade establishments. This was at the time of the introduction for self catering operators of new rules that I was told should lead to 25% of 4 star self catering units been downgraded to 4 star. needless to say, it never happened. I tell our guests that 4 star covers a multitute of sins, but at least we can now indicate our percentages to the public.

[Pam Foden - VisitEngland]

A nearby guest accommodation rated 5 Stars by Visit***** uses Hotel in their name. I contacted Visit***** to confirm that this was indeed the 5 star hotel it claimed to be (knowing well it wasn't -- as it is rated as a guest accommodation). Visit***** came right back and confirmed that it was indeed a 5 star hotel!!
If those who rate can't even keep it straight then what can you do?

I really believe it is false advertisment but think that the solution is to take away all the different categories -- the guests sure don't understand the difference between a guest accommodation, an inn, a restaurant with rooms and a hotel -- especially not when it says hotel in the name of the business!!

Dear Joanna,

Can you let me know the name of the property then I can quickly check the rating? If someone has made a mistake, I do apologise. We are very clear that there is a huge difference be a 5-star hotel and a 5-star B&B/Guest Accommodation. We encourage all guide and website publishers to check the designator and not show the stars without the designator. We are currently working closely with the data stewards in the regions to tidy up descriptions on our various websites to ensure the term 'hotel' does not appear unless the hotel has a hotel star rating. It is very important that consumers are not misled and if you read online reviews, there is plenty of evidence that they know the difference between a hotel and a B&B.

Kind regards. Pam

[Raincliffe1]

How right you are Patrick - 4 star does cover a multitude of sins and yes Inspectors are lethargic about downgrading establishments as it appears to cheapen the product and who would join VisitBritiain or the AA only to be downgraded - no I don't think they would. I am all for serviced accommodation publishing their percentages as it will enable Joe Public to make direct comparisions between accommodation providers, rather than grappling with the 'what do I get for what price' issue. Publishing percentages would actually simplify things and make businesses more transparent. Plus it would provide an incentive for places to 'up their game.'

Katherine

[topsy]

Would certainly agree with that the 4 star grading for self catering covers a very wide spectrum of properties. The newly introduced gold awards have helped but there appear to be still a very large number of 4 star graded properties which are more in line with a 3 star quality. When the system was overhauled a few years ago, the inspectors took a very firm line on downgrading 5 star properties which had probably remained 5 star on historical inspections. I fully agreed with this as guest expectation had risen on what 5 star should mean. But there did not seem to be a commensurate downgrading of lower graded existing 4 star properties, so now there is a huge number of 4 star properties with a high proportion only just staying in that band. The inspectors seem not to want to bite the bullet here and downgrade them. Maybe 4 star entry should be raised to 80%?

[Januarygirl]

A nearby guest accommodation rated 5 Stars by Visit***** uses Hotel in their name. I contacted Visit***** to confirm that this was indeed the 5 star hotel it claimed to be (knowing well it wasn't -- as it is rated as a guest accommodation). Visit***** came right back and confirmed that it was indeed a 5 star hotel!!
If those who rate can't even keep it straight then what can you do?

I really believe it is false advertisment but think that the solution is to take away all the different categories -- the guests sure don't understand the difference between a guest accommodation, an inn, a restaurant with rooms and a hotel -- especially not when it says hotel in the name of the business!!

Dear Joanna,

Can you let me know the name of the property then I can quickly check the rating? If someone has made a mistake, I do apologise. We are very clear that there is a huge difference be a 5-star hotel and a 5-star B&B/Guest Accommodation. We encourage all guide and website publishers to check the designator and not show the stars without the designator. We are currently working closely with the data stewards in the regions to tidy up descriptions on our various websites to ensure the term 'hotel' does not appear unless the hotel has a hotel star rating. It is very important that consumers are not misled and if you read online reviews, there is plenty of evidence that they know the difference between a hotel and a B&B.

Kind regards. Pam

Dear Pam,

Having just been awarded 3 Star Hotel accreditation I have been reading this forum with much interest. We are a 34 bed hotel and have worked extremely hard and reinvesting all profits back into the business for the last 6 years to achieve this. The problem that we have encountered is that 80% of the hotel accommodation in our very busy seaside resort are now becoming 3 and 4 star guest accommodation. These premises are still advertising as hotels having been known as such for many years. Some have over 70 rooms? Speaking to several of the proprietors they insist that they do not need to achieve the standards needed to have a hotel rating as they have seen an significant increase in bookings since achieving 4 star GA. The majority or the public only see the stars when booking not the wording underneath. If a guest then experiences poor standards below their expectations could they in turn loose faith in the star rating and believe that all accommodation in the town is poorly assessed?
The chairperson of the local hoteliers association always without fail addresses their GA accommodation owned *******'s No 1 Hotel, Award Winning Hotel or themselves as an experienced hotelier when speaking as a spokesperson for the town whether in the press or on behalf of the tourist board, this is infuriating, only by using the old diamond and star ratings we will surely overcome the confusion.
Maybe properties with over 30 bedrooms should only be permitted to gain hotel accreditation.
I welcome your comments.

Regards
Januarygirl

[Der Alte Fritz]

Manors
My opinion is that the general public do not understand the system at all and just look for a) No of stars b)awards. But I think they make their buying decisions based on what they read on your website. It is catching their attention in the first place that is the job of the star ratings.

So your best option would be to be a 4 star Gold Award Guest Accommodation rather than a 2 star hotel. We recently looked at this and then had a Hotel Consultant look at it again and came to the same conclusion for us. The only other option is to look at Country House Hotel grading as this obviates the need for a night porter and so may raise your number of stars. Really these days you need three starts to be in the running for a hotel, so get them by fair means or foul.

[Raincliffe1]

Valid points Januarygirl. I can sympathise with your concerns - refurbing a 34 bedroom hotel is no meant feat. Problem is only hoteliers/guest house owners (people in the trade) actually recognise the value and outlay of the 3 stars hotel accolate over the 3/4 stars GA. Joe Public will not appreciate that perhaps as a 'hotel' you refurbed your kitchen at perhaps £25K whereas a guest house might install a B&Q job at £2K (which is perfectly adequate for the 10 breakfasts it may serve). As a hotel you have to be open 24/7 and not shut on a quiet weekend/week perhaps, increased cost of insurances, licences, staffing the list goes on.

Yes, the majority of the public only see the number of stars and let's face it we now know this as accommodation providers 24 months on after the revised grading system was introduced.

'If a guest then experiences poor standards below their expectations could they in turn loose faith in the star rating and believe that all accommodation in the town is poorly assessed?' This is already happening and it is as a result of the 'dumbing down' of the ratings (in my opinion). I am hearing this same point year on year from my customers, call it a loss of faith, call it confusion, either way the system loses credibility.

Regards your local chairperson why not table a motion that all owners should be regarded as 'accommodation providers' - (mouthful that it is) serviced or not.

Katherine

[freddy1]

doesn't it just show you what rubbish all this grading is? I had my annual inspection 3 weeks ago and every year we have painted/replaced and updated the rooms somehow as we like to keep the place looking fresh and reasonably up to date. The crunch here? I'll tell you, it doesn't matter how many times you repaint by changing colour scheme etc and update (without costing the earth) the fact that you have not changed the wall covering you will not get any extra points. I found this out when she was going round marking stuff and asked her why the decoration etc was not marked higher. She replied because the wall covering was the same, ie, emulsion. I said that to wallpaper the walls of a 400 year old farmhouse was inappropriate and would look awful considering the roughness of the walls, which was another aspect they mark down for apparently. Yes, if you have roung walls these are considered blemishes - I said that if I'd wanted smooth walls and wallpapering ability I would have bought a new house. The more I hear about the grading system the more ludicrous and out of date I think it is. B&Bs are individual establishments and the grading scheme seems to want to make them all the same with their sterile, narrow attitude/critera. The criteria may have been OK years ago but these days one persons subjective opinion after a 45 minute visit is no match to a website with up to date photos and detailed information.

[greenbarncottages]

greenqueen, you have my sympathy! Perhaps I'm not the most discerning of individuals, but if I were to visit your 400 year old farmhouse I would want to find decor consistent with the age and character of the property; that would include rough plastering on the walls, and definitely no wallpaper. The idea of wallpaper over a bumpy wall........

Our self catering properties are a conversion of a Victorian stone barn. Building regs required the external walls to be insulated and dry lined inside, and we particularly asked the plasterers to ensure a rough finish. It looks right for the age of the property, but as I'm sure you know painting a rough finish is a lot more work than painting a super-smooth polished plaster wall. Our guests appreciate the barn and the sympathetic nature of the conversion; I'm sure your guests appreciate decor that is sympathetic to your building, rather than despoiling it for the sake of a couple of Brownie points.

Our VB inspectors have commented on the finish being in keeping with the nature of the building, so it seems they were showing some sensible interpretation; I thought inspectors were empowered to do this, but maybe not?

[Hugh Bailey]

We have 5* cottages and, like you, live on site. When we started out we were 4*, but made significant investments in the cottages to get them up to 5* Gold award level. We have (touch wood) very little problem with guests. I think if the cottages are well presented and you do the handover yourself, then guests have a personal involvement and tend to be very respectful of the properties. If they know you, and know where to find you if there is a problem, you get a lot less hassle than if they let themselves in when they arrive and never see the owner - it then becomes a faceless organisation and they bother less about how they leave it. We've been doing this since 2003 and I can count on one hand the guests we have had problems with (either leaving the cottage in a tip with week-old welded on weetabix, or wanting us to produce things on demand that we don't/can't supply). It does very occasionally happen, but for the most part we have charming guests. You do need people to tell you when things go wrong, or are broken, otherwise you can't put them right (I certainly don't check every week whether the hand blenders are all working or not...). Ideally they would do this during their holiday, rather than on changeover day, so you aren't running round like a headless chicken trying to get a new toaster or whatever, but then we don't live in an ideal world!

We are currently going through the star rating issue with our self catering cottages. We're in our first year, and have just had the assessor in, who effectively gave us the option of being four star or spending a bit more in a couple of areas and being five star - and yes, I realise there is absolutely no correlation between star ratings for S/C, hotels, and indeed any other form of guest accommodation, and I do believe this is an issue, particularly in situations such as the original poster's.

The problem we have, and being new into the trade doesn't help, is deciding which to go for, and any advice or experience would be gratefully received.

We have seen some 4* self catering places nearby which are truly awful, so do we want to be associated (in the minds of prospective guests) with those places? A big part of the problem seems to be the lack of ongoing assessment of existing places, which may have been 4* a few years back but are now tired and in need of a big refit - currently they would only be assessed as 3* or less, but can continue to market as 4* - and honestly. This doesn't help those of us trying to offer something a lot better, but which is perceived as the same quality, and I'm sure the situation is similar with other accommodation types.

We could differentiate ourselves by going the extra mile and being 5*, but here is where we could really do with some help. We live on site, the cottages are in our grounds. We've heard tales from 5* S/C owners about the expectations of some guests who will go out of their way to find something to moan about, or come knocking on the door late at night because a lightbulb has gone (there are spares....) or something equally trivial. Now we are very happy to hear feedback, we are happy to know about problems asap and to be able to sort them, and we've already had a couple of situations due to minor teething problems in a new barn conversion. These have been from guests who have come over not in a "this is wrong we want some money back" frame, but in a "there's a problem and we thought you'd like to know about it" frame. Very different, helpful, and yes, thank you for telling us.

Certainly we are likely to get the occasional guests with unrealistic expectations, no matter what our grading and no matter how well we try and manage expectations. The question is, have people found that offering 5* S/C attracts a lot more "professional moaners"? We've enjoyed what we're doing so far, and we don't want it to turn sour.
Any thoughts?

[Manors]

What is VB doing? We have just had our new payment schedule for this year's subscription and it has gone up from £303 last year to £378 this year!! How can this be justified in these harsh economic times! We have not put up our tariff any more than the VAT increase, as I am sure many other businesses have not. I will seriously have to think whether my membership fee is warranted, bearing in mind I get very little, if any, business via VB/EnjoyEngland.

[VisitEngland_Feedback_]

Hotel and Guest accommodation renewal fees are based on the number of rooms a property has and the fee charged for bed and breakfast in a single room or single occupancy of a double room. The lowest tariff band is up to £34.99 incl VAT. When the assessor stayed or visited the previous year, if the tariff is higher than £34.99, then the next band would be used for the renewal the following year. The next band is £35.00 up to £44.99. Assessors will also look at the property website to check the tariffs advertised by the hotel or guest accommodation. This may have been the case in the example mentioned on the Forum. If the property was in the same tariff band as the previous year, the £303 incl VAT would have increased to £325 for the 2011/12 renewal.

There has been a small 'across the board' inflation rise for all scheme participants this year, plus the additional VAT of 2.5%, but two discounts are available - 1% if a business elects to receive the assessment report electronically, plus 5% for paying in two instalments by Direct Debit and new for this year, an option of this same 5% discount for those that prefer to pay by other means and fully settle their bill within 14 days of the date of the renewal reminder.

All hotels assessed by VisitEngland receive overnight stays every year, and therefore income from the booking paid by the assessor. The frequency of overnights for guest accommodation varies from every year, every other year or every three years, depending on the star rating and whether the property has a Silver or Gold award.

If any Forum member is unsure how their renewal fee has been calculated, the Helpdesk staff at Quality in Tourism will be happy to answer queries (tel: 0845 300 6996 or email: qualityintourism@uk.g4s.com ) or alternatively the online calculator at www.qualityintourism.com can be used. The B&B tariff used should reflect the advertised rates by the accommodation provider.

[Martin]

Surely the tariff bands should be adjusted each year based on inflation?

Martin.

[Kim234]

I will be blunt I work with various agencies who will only work with you if you are rated otherwise I wouldn't bother as my Trip Adviser, Laterooms and Booking.com reviews speak for themselves and frankly I think the public gives these more weight and frankly the public has no clue what any of the ratings mean anyway. We use Guest Accommodation as and this is a quote "we don't want to share bathrooms or have to be in by 10" when you say guest house. We simply say our name with no designation unless asked.

[Manors]

Well, if I had realised that, I would have put our single room rate at £34.98 - it was an expensive mistake, as we certainly won't recoup the difference in the number of single rooms we let out - i.e. 7,500 room nights, particularly with the additional VAT increase - and we only have two single rooms. I know there always has to be a cut-off point but I would have thought it would start with the higher tariff hotels - but that is just my opinion.

[Raincliffe1]

Manors, is there not an option to change the details held by VB on the renewal request and alter prices in your current advertising to match and then your fee can be recalculated?

In my opinion VisitBritain are trying to say in a round about way that there is no 'real' increase if you take advantage of the 'discounts' never mind the fact that other utilities and businesses have been offering these options and savings for years (I have recieved a discount for paying my gas/electric by direct debit for 9 years now). What Visit Britain need to consider is the fact that achieving the same room rates as previous years is a real challenge at the moment but the big problem is that margins are being eroded as there are fixed costs we are powerless to reduce.

Visit Britain could always have done something revolutionary and actually reduced the amount charged per room in each tariff band at least in recognition of the fact that trading times are so difficult and they are actually supposed to be supporting our businesses. What about a 'loyality bonus' i.e. the longer you have been participating in the Scheme, the larger the discount, perhaps after one year 1%, 2 years 2% and then a cap at 5%, then there is an incentive to stay with VisitBritain the following year. Problem is (as I'm sure you are all aware), if you attempt to increase fees too much in tough times, businesses simply will not join the scheme, especially as you have pointed out Kim234, Joe Public is now giving more weight to various review sites in their holiday selection process.

Katherine

[Raincliffe1]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but does not the bed and breakfast tariff that VisitBritain refer to when calulating their fees relate to the highest tariff chieved by the accommodation provider, even when in reality you may only attain this tariff for 6 weeks of the year. The average tariff charged for the room may result in qualifying for the lower band, rather than just scraping into the next band (this would make a difference of some £80 annually to our annual fee). Then again, the tariffs bands will be set to maximize revenue for Visit Britain.

This is my own personal viewpoint and I know many other businesses disagree but I also feel aggrieved at the fact that VAT paying businesses are lumped together with non VAT registered ones. Tariffs are tariffs to the customer at the end of the day when calculating a fee based on room rates charged. However, room rates actually recieved are slightly different. Visit Britain should acknowledge the fact that 20% of VAT registered businesses' tariff is actually a tax that we collect on behalf of the Government. If I were to take the VAT off my room rates I would also be in the sub £35.00 bracket, but that would not maximize revenue...

Katherine

[VisitEngland_Feedback_]

A year ago VisitEngland changed the tariff bands for the 2010/11 renewals to reflect inflationary rises in overnight B&B rates for both hotels and guest accommodation over the past couple of years. The three lower bands were uprated by about 10% - £0-£29.99 went to £0-£34.99, the £30-£39.99 went to £35-£44.99 and the £40-£59.99 went to £45-£59.99. The rest stayed the same.

The tariff selected by a property to determine the correct annual participation fee should be the standard B&B rate advertised for a single room or single occupancy of a double room for one night - i.e. what the assessor would expect to pay when he or she stays overnight.

[Raincliffe1]

One interpretation is that by widening the bands many businesses fall into higher a higher fee multiplier for their rooms. Would it not be 'fairer' or at least more accurate to revert back to the £10.00 per night intervals perhaps? The difference for our business of £80 per annum depending on which band we are in is quite a hike in my opinion especially when we (like many others) are on the cusp of the two lowest bands.

So, can the standard B&B rate for a room be 'FROM X' amount?

'X' being the minimum charged for the room all year round and hey,if you are lucky enough to achieve 'X AMOUNT' plus a whole £10.00 for 6 weeks of the year, good luck to you.

Therefore, would it make a difference to the fees if the Inspector had their overnight visit in January as opposed to August? Just a thought.

Katherine

[freddy1]

Sounds to me that VB are trying take advantage of an establishment's profit margin by charging fees based on room rates. It's all very well charging this way but if somebody charges £38 pppn with 3 rooms and only gets 20% occupancy versus a rate of £33 pppn with 6 rooms and a 60% occupancy then who is better off finanically? Flat fees by VB set by how many beds are available seems a fairer option. Also to attain 5* rating one has to put a lot more in financially and to reap that back have to charge more, so why should VB charge more if this establishment has invested more? It's like VB are saying 'here's yoour 5* but we are going to charge you for it'. A few years ago I was with the AA but chucked them out due to the fact that they were becoming increasingly expensive for no return - 2 bookings from them in 4 years. Because of my location, near the Welsh border, I was able to be graded by VisitWales which turned out to be 50% less than AA and VB. I decided to go with it because all I wanted was the grading so that I could advertise on the official local council website and any other website that required grading. VWales charge a flat fee then a set amount per bedroom, fine with me and I get the 4 stars, the same as the AA graded me at. Again, it shows the futility of the garding system.

[Sue: White Horse Walking Holidays]

Judging by an article in The Sunday Times today, star ratings could become a thing of the past with more people judging whether or not to book by reading online reviews.

I went on a training course last week which also addressed the ratings systemn and it seems that it is going to be reviewed. Personally I would prefer to opt out of the Visit England scheme and keep my Visit Wiltshire membership but that's not possible at the moment.

[_Sharpe]

The Sunday Times 23.01.11 has an interesting article about this topic entitled "Minister to scrap hotel star ratings"

Here's a quote, "The Department for Culture, Media and Sport is to remove its official backing for the star system because it argues that it is out of date and doesn't reflect value for money or what guests want."

Here's another quote, "The government proposal, expected to be published later this year, argues that consumers are often given more truthful insights by fellow customers posting internet reviews of where they have stayed than the independent assessors who work for Visit Britain, the national tourism agency."

And one final quote from the article which you can read online at The Sunday Times website, "Official ratings run by authorities such as Visit England grade accommodation from one star to five stars depending on the quality of the accommodation and ambience. They also give gold and silver awards to establishments with exceptional service. The AA, too, has a rating scheme for hotels, B&Bs and guesthouses with an objective assessment system. A government source said it was concerned that businesses felt coerced to join one of the star schemes and tha the government was guilty of "corralling" tourist firms into joining the official scheme, which they have to pay to join. He said from now on this should be left up to the hoteliers."

My local tourism board has shut all 8 of it's Tourism Information Centres for 2011.I think that they knew that this was in the works.

[Raincliffe1]

Valid points Greenqueen - 'It's like VB are saying 'here's your 5* but we are going to charge you for it'. Yes, to achieve the top rating, the investment in perhaps larger ensuites, more staff, all the 'extras'represents a big financial committment. And yes, you have to charge more to reap it back and in this financial climate that is becoming increasingly more difficult. The more you put in, the more VB seem to financially punish you. Being 5* rated does not always guarantee you higher turnover (or higher profits) than an establishment of a lower rating. What about VB turning things on their head so to speak and charging on a sliding scale with the higher the quality percentage score resulting in a progressively lower room charge? Perhaps, nothing can really work to satisfy everyone as there are simply too many variables and the system of working out your renewal is the simplest and therefore cheapest to administer.

"The Department for Culture, Media and Sport is to remove its official backing for the star system because it argues that it is out of date and doesn't reflect value for money or what guests want."


Interesting quote you have found Sharpe, maybe the star system is out of date (a bit old school), the 'value for money' element, I think we all know the answer from an accommodation provider's point of view and increasingly I don't think it is what guests' want. I think guests' want something more open and in the public domain and more information. Trouble is we have that in the form of good old review sites. Now think carefully, what do we as accommodation providers really want?

REgarding the government proposal, 'consumers are often given more truthful insights by fellow customers posting internet reviews of where they have stayed than the independent assessors.'

Consumers may well be given more insights, but that is all they are, an experience from their point of view. I personally prefer the idea of a professional person with perhaps 20-30 years experience in the hospitality sector with the insight of inspecting many different hospitality establishments evaluating my business. It is the impartiality, thoroughness and product knowledge when assessing an establishment that review websites will never replace. No customer is completely impartial, no customer has access to all your rooms and (in my opinion) a chunk of customers do not have an appreciation of what goes on behind the scenes, e.g. legistlation that has to be followed, or know the true value of what they are looking at, sleeping in etc. I think percentage scores should be made public along with inspection reports. Assuming VB have faith that their reports will stand up to 'public' scrutiny they could be used (alongside review sites) to inform would be customers. Just my opinion.

Katherine

[_Sharpe]

Katherine, it's a budget cut. They save money by getting rid of the assessors. My local government tourism website already has a link to TripAdvisor. It's John Penrose's opinion that matters to VB because that is who is funding them.

[Raincliffe1]

If budget cuts and John Penrose deem that VB star ratings/assessments have to go, then there is little we can do about it. I was always sure that the system needed radical change which may have ultimately signalled its demise in this technological age but obviously not on this shortened timescale.

Remember no Inspection system will leave hospitality providers totally at the mercy of travel review sites which, let's face it, are not properly moderated, reviews are not always validated and can be abused in many ways by both customers and business owners, end of.

Katherine or

[freddy1]

If the grading system is removed then many of us would save money by not having to pay membership fees to get the grading to advertise on the official council website and a few others that demand one to be graded. Yes, it may open the way to abuse by the less stringent and honest B&B owners, but they are already out there operating ungraded anyway so what is really the reason that some will be upset to see their stars go? I couldn't care less about star rating and only have them to advertise on other websites. Unfortunately there are those that have a Mrs Bucket (bouquet)relationship with their stars! I see no good in them as having stayed at places that have got a VB silver award and what they offer is less than what we offer for bog standard 4*. It's the inconsistency that I really detest. Don't know whether bI've mentioned it but we tend to paint and refresh every year but did you know that if your property had emulsioned walls at it's first inspection even it you refresh and change the colour scheme it makes no difference to the grading - one would have to wall paper to get regraded on decor regardless of the appropriateness of it in a very old building! I think we would all be better off saving the fee money and spending more on website and SEO marketing. We were in Dartmoor 4 years ago and they have their own grading system whereby you can get on the council website and not have to cough up VB or AA fees, just local ones. I think we're all too obsessed with grading and displaying stars in our lives - star rating schools, star rating tv shows, star rating our kitchens....when will it all end?

[Jacquie]

I am in agreement with you GreenQueen. That is why, after two years, I have decided not to renew my VB contract. I just have not seen the worth of the yearly payment to them. True, I was awarded a 4*Silver from the beginning but, I really don't think this has generated a lot of business my way. My B&B is on a private road so does not generate walk-ins. When I have questioned my guests, the majority have said they have found me via my own website or through other websites I am linked to. I have not had one visitor say they found my via VisitBritain or EnjoyEngland sites.

[Windy]

I'm afraid that I too am coming to the conclusion that my VB sub is maybe not money well spent. The projected demise of the grading system would be the final straw I think. If VE stood up for the industry over the issues like DVD concierge and PRS then I might feel differently but I'm starting to feel I'd be better off spending the money to support EASCO or similar if I'm honest.

It's a terrible shame though.

[Kim234]

We have a neighbour who gets terrible reviews so what she does is every now and again make bookings for herself ie for cheap single rooms so not costing much and leaves glowing reviews there is always someone out to beat the system and sometimes I think I don't blame her if you can't beat them join them.

[474wendyb]

I totally agree and have just decided not to renew with the rating scheme. I get absolutely nothing from VB/Enjoy England and also have an 'older syle' property with exposed walls/beams. I've been told by guests that we are better than some 5 star properties, but it will be impossible for me to acheive this rating because of the nature of our building. I think guests like to come to characterful houses and it is a shame that this is not considered when they do their ratings.

[_monet208]

Disappointed to read Freddy 1's cynical comments about the value of the star rating system which seem to be motivated by saving money and experiences where they felt a stay at a VB with a silver award was not as good as their own 4* establishment.Silver and Gold Awards are given for different criteria to that of a star rating so its inconsistent to try and compare them.
Inconsistencies do exist but cannot be used to damm the system!
Really unsure what is wrong with a few owners having a Mrs "Bucket" realtionship with their 5 stars (after all guests will soon suss that out !!) But they have worked hard to get them and one of the 5* Gold Award establishments,without the Mrs B aspect,we find the system is valued in the UK and overseas.
By the way there are many other ways to improve ones grading instead of wallpapering!
The alternative of self-assessment which exists on many booking sites is fraught with problems and one only needs to look at the reviews of self-assessed properties on one of the biggest booking to see why we need the present system.
I am not suggesting that self-assessment does not have a place but it only works linked to a verified review system on the site that the guest has booked with,
This of course leads me to the present proposals by our Minister John Penrose
I copy his reply to us at the end of this post - he totally ignored my point about review sites that do not verify ,for many reasons, the reviews they post, such as TripAdvisor.
Kim 234 - Did you really mean it when you said that to leave false reviews is OK ?
Please tell us you were joking .I am sure you were, otherwise it could bring out the worst in a forum member,not myself I hasten to say, hoping someone who has never stayed with you leaves you a untrue nasty review on TA and smiles as you find out how difficult it is to get it removed !

Dear ,

Thank you for your email of 11 February to the Minister for Tourism and Heritage, John Penrose, about hotel star ratings which has been passed to me for reply.

The Development of Tourism Act 1969 established the British Tourism Authority and Tourist Boards for England, Scotland and Wales with the responsibility for promoting the development of tourism to and within Great Britain. The quality assessment schemes help VisitEngland meet these responsibilities but their provision or promotion is not a statutory duty.

The Government has not yet decided to abolish or change the existing quality assessment schemes. In developing a Tourism Strategy, we are considering the need for a better balance between star-rating schemes and customer feedback websites to enable customers to make a better and more informed choice. If taken forward, this could involve ending the public sector’s promotion of official rating schemes.
When final decisions have been taken, VisitEngland would take forward any proposals in conjunction with the industry and will take account of any other views received from consumers and other government departments. VisitEngland would continue to support, identify and share advice with English tourism firms and destinations on sustainability and accessibility. There is already a wealth of information on VisitEngland’s web site to help businesses develop a sustainability programme and to provide detailed information for disabled tourists.
Stephen Kaufer is the President and CEO of TripAdvisor, the company is not sponsored or funded by the Department and as such we do not have their contact details.
Thank you, again, for writing.

Charlotte Morris

Public Engagement and Recognition Unit
Department for Culture, Media and Sport |2-4 Cockspu