fire alarm system do we need to install ??? help

[Derbyshire Country Houses]

I own a 6 bedroom holiday cottage and have been told i need to have a complicated wired in fire alarm system, has anyone else had the same issue we have installed already battery operated smoke and carbon monoxide alarms which are tested and logged monthly

[_Sharpe]

They changed the fire regulations in October 2006. This website can help you
http://www.communities.gov.uk/fire/firesafety/firesafetylaw/

It seems that you will have to comply.

It all depends on your local fire safety officer on what you have to do as they interpret the rules differently. Be very, very polite to him/her. Ours was very demanding. We've got smoke detectors in closets and all three of our attics! As well as in all the rooms plus the wired in alarms and emergency lighting. We spent most of the last quarter of 2008 getting compliant with the new regs and writing our fire risk assessment. We wrote to say that we were done in February and we haven't been inspected.

[Raincliffe1]

A hardwired system has to be best although I do not know if it compulsory for self catering accommodation. With a hardwired system you can install detectors which detect smoke and heat plus they have an extremely audible buzzer. There is no disadvantage of the batteries going dead/needing testing and also I guess the system lasts longer in an intense fire so your guests have a greater chance of being alerted to the fire. Bottom line is, if there was a fire and some of your guests were involved, if your individual battery alarms were found wanting - how would you feel? I know if I were going anywhere to stay one thing I would definitely notice is the age/type of detectors that were installed, but I suppose that is because I am in this industry.

Katherine

[Derek Merkl & Sue Wright]

We also have self-catering accommodation. I have been known to say that wireless systems do not comply in other forums! But, we recently had installed a complete wireless system for a cost of about £2k. Whilst not yet inspected by the fire officer we are sure that this commercial system will meet all necessary regulations. I have seen the specification and it exceeds that of other 'hard wired' systems and the manufacturers assure me that it will comply.

We have a total of 4 self-catering apartments see www.abbeyheights.com all have fire alarm systems installed.

Derek

[Martin_Sach_CE_EASCO]

There is no law that says you MUST have a fire alarm. Whether or not you need one depends on the outcome of YOUR risk assessment. It is not the fire officer's job or anyone else's to do this. You can get a consultant to help you do the risk assessment if you want to but at the end of the day it is your assessment. The fire authority can issue an improvement notice if they disagree with the conclusions and if you are on very strong ground you could challenge it in court. If you have done a thorough risk assessment and your conclusion was that a fire alarm system was not needed, and the fire office has reached the opposite conclusion, then you have a bit of a problem and you should probably take expert advice.

If you accept the fire officer's conclusion that an alarm is needed (and by the way, nobody who has not visited the property personally can really tell you this as the assessment depends on all the circumstances of the particular property) then consider a wireless system. They save your decorations and may be cheaper to install. These days they are just as good.

Martin

[_Sharpe]

You can find a lot of good of good advice at www.firesafetysense.com They are lobbying the government for clearer and fairer measures and were partially responsible for that "Do you have paying guests?" brochure that you will have received in October 2008. If not, you can read it online or order it from

www.communities.gov.uk/publications/fire/payingguests

Wireless systems in my neck of the woods are about double the price. We had a quote in 2008 and went the other way due to price. Our decor has not been adversely affected.

[Martin_Sach_CE_EASCO]

Sharpe, you have been lucky on prices! Usually, wireless is cheaper and less hassle!

[greenbarncottages]

Equally important to consider is signage and emergency lighting, and your risk assessment needs to consider if guests can find their way to the exits in smoke and in an unfamiliar layout if power has failed.
Finally, when they get to the exit, they need to be able to open it without using a key; we were told by our consultant that providing a key in a breakable glass box was not sufficient, although that was his opinion, and as has been said earlier some of these things are just that - opinion.

Sorry - I should have pointed out at the start that we're in self-catering, with three cottages in one barn conversion, so our experience is only applicable in that area.

[Der Alte Fritz]

I think the basic problem is that Fire Services are not consistent in their requirements around the country. In which case, if you are having problems with your local Fire Dept getting a company in to manage your fire risk is a good option. They will do the fire doors, signage, extinguishers, blankets, alarm and the risk assessment for you and manage it and keep it compliant. They will also know the local Fire Officer and his particular demands and more importantly keep up to date with the changing legislation.

Likewise other groups such as the local Chamber of Commerce or Federation of Small Businesses are other groups who will gladly fight on your behalf or give advice.

Case in point last summer a lot of guesthouses got the new government Fire Risk Assessment, a large daunting document threatening beheading and disembowelling in the Tower if you did not comply. One phone call to my fire company - they said do it yourself - wander round and do a fire assessment, file it in the office. We have done the rest, everything is compliant so do not worry.

Obviously it is more of an expense and issue for very small providers but getting expert advice usually pays for itself in the long run.

[Raincliffe1]

On the subject of fire safety, can I ask whether any members have been told to put the intumescent seals around the doors of every room in their property?

I am a little annoyed because we have had these strips put in on the doorframes in our new extension, new kitchen and public areas but not in the 'older' part of the building (the existing letting rooms). I'm sure this is not a new requirement and that the fire safety officer who has just told us we need to do this should have made us aware of it last year or the year before (as it was he who visited us previously). When this fire officer came on previous occasions when major refurbishment was taking place it would have been HELPFUL if he had mentioned the requirement for this BEFORE the new carpets and new furniture were installed. I think he has no conception of the dust routering out doorframes will cause.

So a word to the wise - if this is a requirement and you are refurbishing letting rooms this winter I would make sure you have these intumescent seals put in your doorframes. #-o

Katherine

[_Sharpe]

We were had to use the intumescent system on all of our doors last year according to the fire safety officer here.

[Raincliffe1]

Thanks Sharpe - I rest my case (rant over).

Katherine

[Joyce Taylor]

We had to do this in 2006 our joiner took the doors off took them out side and cut the grooves for the strips then rehung the doors it was much cleaner than fitting them on the frames and it makes no difference which you choose. Joyce

[Briarscourt]

Our local fire officers in Kent insisted on intumescent seals throughout, and that they were on doorframes, not doors. Our property is 130 years old, the job wasn't done very well and it's spoiled the look of our stripped pine door frames.

I get the impression this requirement is not UK-wide; seems to vary according to the authority.